JEM Watercraft

I've been watching you guys build JEM plans for a year now. Matt does some really nice design work and you guys build cool boats from them.

I need some input from some of you that have experience with the Freedom, Pirogue Tumblehome Touring versions, and the Laker.

I am 6'4" and 240-270 lbs depending on the time of year. I want to design and build myself a fly fishing boat. I was going to buy a plastic Native Watercraft Ultimate or MantaRay in the 14.5' length............. until I discovered the stitch and glue wood boat alternative.

Boat will be used mainly on 8000' - 10,000' high elevation ponds and lakes, maybe even wind swept reservoirs out west in Colorado, Montana and Wyoming. Keeping out of the colder than heck 38 degree water is priority number one! So Stability needs to be rock solid.

I have FreeSHIP and HULLS boat design software and have played with all kinds of hull shapes. I noticed that putting a shallow 1" V like a Laker on a Pirogue drastically changes the displacement by almost 100 lbs per drafted inch.

So I looked at the Freedom lower hull idea and it seems to be a good compromise displacement wise between the totally flat pirogue and the Laker V.

What Would I gain with that small extra chine ala the Freedom vs the totally flat pirogue bottom? Is it better secondary stability? Is ti speed?

I have never paddled a Kayak. My first impulse was to build a 36" beam 15.5' asymmetrical TH pirogue. I now also have drawn up a 15.5' Freedomesque hull with a 30" beam, 24" bottom, 15"-12"-14" height but instead of the peaked deck, I used tumblehome panels and a rounded deck on top of that. I like the lines of it a lot.

Problem is the displacement numbers puts me and the boat hull weight drafting about 3" and drafting 4" at 385 lbs.

Should I bump it out to 32" or even 34" beam to get more cargo capacity and less draft? How is that going to paddle?

I have not found a stock plan yet that totally fits my needs so I am getting ideas together to maybe have Matt do a custom plan for me in the future.

I don't know any of that technical stuff mate.

All I know is that all of Matt's boats that I have built have worked beautifully for me and for their intended purpose.

Stability is allways important in a fishing boat, but probably never more so than in your case. if the lakes you are planning on fishing are big and exposed to wind chop, so is sea-worthiness. You will be trusting your life in your boat, litterally. If you design it yourself and have never paddled a kayak before, that is a very big call. I would very respectfully urge caution in this regard.

Good luck mate.

If it's wind-swept waters, I'd definately consider something with a deck to get the lower side profile and plus cover the open top and prevent the wind for scooping in and pushing.

A flat bottom will displace a lot. Problem is that if the width, length, and displacement are not combined properly, you'll float too high in the water, thus raising your center of gravity, thus creating an unstable ride.

That all being said, it sounds like the Touring Pirogue T would be the answer. There is a wider version that I don't have published yet that you can about do cart wheels in.

Now I did have a wild-hair project for a hull real close the Ultimate but it would not be an easy build.

jem wrote: That all being said, it sounds like the Touring Pirogue T would be the answer. There is a wider version that I don't have published yet that you can about do cart wheels in.

Now I did have a wild-hair project for a hull real close the Ultimate but it would not be an easy build.

Matt..

Trying to help one person (MakoML ) locate the perfect boat for him you just listed two reason Mick will not get any sleep.

MakoMl...

Let me throw my 5 cents worth in the hat.
The boat you make is made they way you want it , to your desires and thoughts unlike the ones you have to take ( accept) as is, off the shelf.
The real beauty , besides the boat when completed , is the cost , about half or less of the pre-made off the shelf model. Some times a lot more savings depending on which off the shelf model you were looking at.

Chuck.

What kind of draft do you think I should be looking for for my stated purpose? 3", 4", 5".......? don't want to go too deep or beaching the thing will be a problem?

also not against making two splices per panel for longer boat if needed.

What max beam would you suggest for my size and desires? What opening width between the tumblehomes?

You guys are great source of info and inspiration for sure.

Mick, I am just getting ideas on paper and rough designs.... will let Matt do final I think or panels won't fit together...LOL

MakoML wrote:What kind of draft do you think I should be looking for for my stated purpose? 3", 4", 5".......? don't want to go too deep or beaching the thing will be a problem?

I'd say to get the best stability without it being a slow barge, shoot for 4". It's tough to get the right shape, size, payload and draft to all intermingle and behave.

MakoML wrote:also not against making two splices per panel for longer boat if needed.

What max beam would you suggest for my size and desires? What opening width between the tumblehomes?

Ideal beam depends on you and your paddling style. Some people can only go if the boat is skinny. Others can make a 36" wide boat dance with a single blade. If you're tall, chances are you have a longer reach so something wider shouldn't be a problem.

As far as top opening width, again, it's personal preference. If paddling is all you're worried about, then just enough for you to fit in plus a little extra for pdf or bulky clothes.

But if you need to get to gear and be able to stand, then perhaps wider. It's hard to say.

Might want to sit in a couple boats and take a tape measure to decide what you like and don't like.

MakoML wrote:You guys are great source of info and inspiration for sure.

Mick, I am just getting ideas on paper and rough designs.... will let Matt do final I think or panels won't fit together...LOL

MakoML wrote:I am 6'4" and 240-270 lbs depending on the time of year. I want to design and build myself a fly fishing boat.

Stable enough to fly fish while standing in the boat, or sitting sitting in the boat?

DM

I doubt I would ever feel comfortable standing to cast from a kayak..... so sitting.

I have fly fished from inflatable pontoon boats... and canoes.... talk about slow moving and a lot of work rowing.... or just plain dangerous in the canoes case....... so kayak seems like easier to get and keep moving with a bit less stability than the pontoons but more than the canoe.

Make sense?

dangermouse01 wrote:

MakoML wrote:I am 6'4" and 240-270 lbs depending on the time of year. I want to design and build myself a fly fishing boat.

Stable enough to fly fish while standing in the boat, or sitting sitting in the boat?

DM

Something I was sketching the other day:





Specs:

-14' x 32" max beam
-Bow height is 17
-Stern is 13.5".
-Mid is 11"
-cockpit opening is 28".
-Capacity: 420 (gross) at 4" waterline.

matt, this looks more like a rowing dory or skiff with a slight vee bottom to me? Is that what you intended it for? Definitely could fly fish from it though.